when was art made to please?
when i express myself i do please me,i will not lie about it, and i think that art in general please the people who sees it , it could be in a non purpose way but it does.
but you express yourself to please yourself or, because you are expressing something it will please you?
I do it to please the necessity that i have to express myself , and if the final result please me it just because it remind me of the pleasure that i had doing it.
* but when i please others it remind me the pleasure that i had and next time that i will express myself i will think about the others (in a non direct way) to remind me that they will remind me that pleasure.
but your pleasure becomes from when your are doing it or when it is finished? if you have already pleasure doing it, why do you have the need to please yourself again at the end, just to remember the pleasure that you had during before? and if it is a necessity of expression, why you need the pleasure of it? it seems that after all, is not the expression that counts, but only the pleasure. you are just using the expression to have pleasure. is it ethic?
I think that i can explain it with this similarity ... when i go to the bathroom i go because i need to but when i finish it i feel a pleasure, the pleasure of the discharge you know what i mean? i express myself more because i need to that because i want, belive me. and as i say my main satisfaction comes during the expression and not after it, but after the expression its done i like to remeber the pleasure that i had during it, its normal, i like pleasure, you like pleasure to. I think that the day that art will become ethic i will stop expressing myself.
i'm not worry about if art, on it's own, is ethic or not. what i meant was if you think about the ways you use to get your goals on art? you talk about pleasure and expression on art (on your art) and i can't see them like one thing only. i even can't see them depended from each other. the art as pleasure becomes from baroque art on XVII century and they believe that all art should be the way that people get sensorial pleasure. you will not think about the artist you don't think the object, you just want to get the pleasure. what you see, what you hear, what you touch, is only a way to give and get pleasure. it's art as a dildo!!!but understanding the art as expression as it borns on XIX century, all art should be seen beyond the object and focus the interior feelings of the artist. what you see, what you hear, what you touch, is just a way to understand the artist and it's emotional state, not the object and not yourself as the public.but you can ask if pleasure is or is not a feeling? i guess it is.but the art as pleasure focus the object as a final result. the art as expression, focus on artist and his process. expression and pleasure on art are like the path and the destination on a travel. how you define travel from this two issues? what is more important? it's impossible to see them on equally importance.so, if you are using expression to get pleasure, or the pleasure is only the consequence from what you are expressing, you must be very conscious about the ways you are using to get your goals and you should think if they are the correct one.so, it becomes an ethic question :)
(believe me or not, i wrote a post for more than an hour and i deleted it by mistake :) )I dont think that i have a final goal with my art, maybe for you as a smart/cult person (i'm serious,your are no longer my teacher, i'm not licking your boots :) ) its hard to understand, but believe my its even harder for me.I am always unhappy with the final result of my pseudo art, not with the time that i spend doing it, but with the object in the end, and i really think that this is a good thing, i dont want to be happy with my art, the day that i wake up happy with the final result of my expression i know that i will stop doing it, and i dont want to, i want to express myself more and more, i think all nights about the things that i want to discharge of my mind and even like this i feel that i'm always unhappy with the quantity of time that i spend doing it. I know that the final object is important for the audience, its the only way that people can figure out what i want to mean with that piece, but for me that final piece its just an object that i use to please my desire of expressing myself, and the truth is that i feel pleasure with that discharge.I know what you are thinking, this guys is always contradicting himself, and maybe i am, but i dont care, i want to be confused with myself, i want to try to understand something that i know that is not supposed to be understand. Sometimes o want to be like Alfred wallis, he used to paint to spend time and not to show for an audience, and i bet that he was a lot more happy with is art that i will ever be with mine.But well, its not that bad and its not that good also, its a necessity, and a feel pleasure when i please that necessity.I hope that you dont get upset with my childish attitude, i like when you make me think, i know that this conversation will be like the others that we had in the pass, when i read them again i feel stupid with my back then philosphy but i feel "smart" now to know that i enrich, and i dont care if it was to a good or bad way.
about art and expression, like we talk at TAV classes, Benedetto Croce is the one who first tried to argue some thesis defending this perspective. but also Robin Collingwood after Croce (we didn't talk about it to not make the class subjects more complex) (not mistake with William Collingwood the sculpture and his father), write some books about this issue. you should try to read them. it could help you to understand what expression means on art.about everything else, i suppose that when you publicly make some questions, that's because you are looking for answers (Should i create to please myself, or to please others ?) since you let the comments available on this blog, from time to time i put more gasoline on fire. thinking about art, as hard as it seems, bugs me every day too, and write about it is some kind of a pressure valve of my head. if you think i'm helping you somehow it's because your questions make me think and i write about it. you don't need to be "very much" worry about over what you are or will be doing. just be very conscious over what you have done.if you want to know yourself, look to your past!i never posted here as your teacher because i don't wont you to give me the answers that it's suppose you to give me. besides that i just start from the beginning that out of classes i don't have anything to teach to anyone. i just wont to learn from and with every one.so, the licking boots situation, i never felt it :)
I already read some stuffs about Collingwood in a book of Nigel Warburton "o que é a arte", its a very small book but i took me a lot to finish it, i am always going back the last 10 pages to try to dont let anything passing by. But i will try to read it another time and i will make you some questions for sure.You know that i really apreciate your advices that you give me in my blog, and even if i sound like a punk ass cocky guy responding to you belive me that i spend more than an hour responding to you, because all that i reply its all from my head and i belive in it, i also want to learn when i reply to you, it realy make me think a lot.I think that a always had/have an obstacle, i never had anyone to talk about art or my questions, i never had a group to talk and argue about expressions and other stuffs, thats way i am always in war with my head, thats why i close a lot in myself. and this blog helps me to discharge this thoughts that i have and questions.But this last couples of months i've been thinking a lot in art and myself, and i think that i have some good projects, and they are starting to pull a trigger in my head, a really good one, I just hope they will work just as i am thinking. its gonna be the kind of projects that will let me less confuse when i will look at my artistic path in the future :)